CAA: Tatsu Aoki & Jeff Parker in conversation

 

Tatsu Aoki (TA): So, I think there was a time during I think the late 90s to early 2000s where we invested in a lot of equipment at the Velvet Lounge. And Fred and Clarence Bright, who was a bartender at the time, we bought several DAT tape recorders and a mixing board. I think that was one of the British-made mixing boards that Clarence liked to use. And basically we recorded everything that was happening in there, especially Fred Anderson. And I think one of the really favorite ones of all of us was the quartet of myself, JP:…Jeff and Hamid and Fred. And we released a double album, and it’s been a legendary album. Jeff, we have to think about re-releasing this thing, because it’s such a nice recording already, you know? So we’ll talk about that later. But so that’s just during that time. I met JP:, initially with this performing group called Cook County Theater something. You remember that, Jeff? I think you were playing something for Dave Papkovic’s Theater Company thing.

Jeff Parker (JP): Oh, yeah, yeah. I remember I did a…I was working with his wife, Rebecca. Rebecca, yeah. And we collaborated on a dance piece, and she asked me to work with her and write some music, And I guess we met then.

TA:  Yeah, we met – I met you first there. Then I also met you through Fred. Then, there’s a time that Jeff will come in and out in a lot of shows that, you know, during that time, I think Fred, me and somebody drumming, and sometimes, like Bill Brimfield will come. Sometimes JP: will come. Drummer changes to Hamid to Chad Taylor to Avreeyal. You know, we recorded a lot of stuff. And JP: was already, I think, a legendary musician in Chicago City. Because you had also had, you and Rob Mazurek and Chad Taylor had Chicago underground, right? Then I think a little later, Jeff went on to Tortoise.

JP: A lot of, a lot of…so much going on at that time. Man, I remember, you know, we had the group with Dave Papkovich, Tricolor.

TA: Oh, yeah, the Tricolor, yes, that was, that was a trio group and we did quite a bit of a shows that we were at the Empty Bottle, doing that and Velvet Lounge and other places.

JP: Yeah, I remember we played at Velvet with George Freeman.

TA: Oh, yeah, that’s right, George Freeman, and you…and Dave, yeah.

JP: But I remember we played Tricolor gig at the Empty Bottle. And I looked out in the audience, and Fred was there, and I was like, “oh shit, Fred’s here. Fred came to hear us play.” And I was like, I was really, really honored. And it was kind of after that that he started to invite me to play with him down at the Velvet.

TA: Right, right. Yeah. So I think there’s a DAT recording of you and me and Avreeyal and Fred as well. Then, there’s a couple different drummers who were there, I think I remember briefly, like Tony, somebody…different drummers…Tony, Tony Walton, I think, yeah, Tony Walton, that’s it.

JP: Yeah. Then Ben Montgomery, yeah.

TA: Ben Montgomery, yeah. So, those are the combinations: Hamid, me, Jeff, Ben Montgomery, you know all these other guys, Tony…

JP: and Chad Taylor, right, right, and Fifi.

TA: That’s right. Fifi was original drummer of the Fred Anderson Trio thing. But JP: was already, you know, a world famous guitar player back then.

JP: Didn’t feel like it.

TA:  Well you were, yeah. I think, you know, Jeff is one of the genius players that I know. I’ve only played with a few guitar players in my life. George Freeman and I did a lot of shows together. You know, and you. Then, I think, some of the blues guitar players, because I played the Shamisen with the blues guitar players. But, you know, in the Creative Jazz Music, you were the only guitar player until recently. You know, recently I met a few other guitar players, but you know, there’s nobody like you around here, so…

JP: Wow man, yeah, I sure…Man, I used to love playing with that quartet. That’s for sure.

TA: Yeah, yeah. I think tricolor was also interesting band.

JP:  Yeah. It was always just improvised. I mean, well, we had some little tunes, but they all were just started out as, like, improvisation, you know.

TA: Right, right, right. I think Dave, Dave wrote, like, most of the little things that you and I were always improvising.

JP: Yeah.

TA: Yeah. So someday I would love to do a reunion of tri color, you know, somewhere. That would be fun.

JP: Yeah, he lives in Austin. I’m actually going there on Wednesday, maybe I’ll see him.

TA: Oh yeah, that’s great. Let’s figure out, like, where we can get together. And, well, you’re so busy Jeff. My life is kind of like, I’m now, I’m at the age when I have to go back and forth between Tokyo and Chicago for my family in Japan, you know. But I think I have a block of time where I can, I can accommodate if we can plan something. That would be super hip to reunite, it’d be amazing, right? Yeah, so we’ll connect.

JP: You still teaching in the Art Institute?

TA: I’m actually at the Art Institute right now, yeah, in the editing booth. I’m like a dinosaur teacher here, Jeff. Totally. I’m teaching one of the few actual analog, you know, film classes. So my class, they don’t do digital. We just, you know, we just kind of keep doing the film stuff. Like your analog tape recorder, right?

JP: Yeah, my partner, Leanne, actually teaches film too, at Cal Arts

TA: Yes. She’s also a very well known, respected filmmaker. So, yeah, yeah. I think didn’t we also play something… a little later at like a margarita joint in Indiana, or something?

JP: Oh, in Michigan.

TA: Yeah, oh Michigan, Yeah.

JP: That’s right, yeah. Booking shows at the Lakeside Inn.

TA: Yeah, we probably, like, we did, like a jam session at the end of the evening or something. So that may be the last time I played with you.

JP: That was…I don’t even know if my son was born yet. I think maybe he was a baby.

TA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you…14? Oh, my God, my little daughter now is 33 and she’s teaching here too.

JP: Wow. That’s amazing.That’s awesome.

TA: Yeah, I don’t know if that’s awesome, but you know, we deal.

TA: My collaboration with Jeff was mainly revolving around Velvet Lounge stuff. Because sometimes we went out to some other location, and I remember it was you and me, and Isaiah.

JP: Oh, yeah, yeah,

TA: Yeah, right, Isaiah Spencer and me and you, we played at someplace else.

JP: We used to play at lots of different places. Man, I remember us playing, do you remember when the Bob Shop left Wicker Park, and she had it up in Andersonville on Clark?

TA: And it was funny during that time, Jeff was always playing one day a week across the street from Bop Shop on some barbecue place. What is that? What was that called? Smoke, smoke, daddy or something?

JP: Smoke Daddy, something, Yeah, still there I think. It is, well…yeah, I drove past it. Yeah, corner of Division and Wood.

TA: So you, you used to play there, right? Like, like you had a weekly gig or something.

JP: Yeah, I’d play there twice a week. I had played there on Tuesday night with Rob Mazurek. And then I played there Thursday night with John Brumbach and Ron Dewar.

TA: Oh, John Brumbach. Oh, my God, that’s right, yeah. So it was funny because Jeff would be playing with somebody like John Brumbach, and I would be playing with John Brumbach on the blues band, So if you play the bass for the blues band, then John Brumbach will come, and he’s also playing with JP:. And I think Jeff is right. This was a time that there are many places like that in Chicago, and we were able to gig just about every night.

JP: Yeah, it was a lot of great times.

TA: There was a videotape of me and Jeff and Hamid and Fred, I think playing at the Lounge, right?

JP: I think it’s it’s been digitized.

TA: Yeah, I think I’ve seen it somewhere.

JP:  Yeah, I think I can find it.

TA: Yeah, okay, yeah.

JP: What was I about to say? Oh, I don’t know if you remember we played in England.

TA: Oh, yes, All Tomorrow’s Parties.

JP: Yeah, when Tortoise curated All Tomorrow’s Parties. Yep, came over and we played, yeah, yeah.

TA: I remember that was it, was it in London, we went?

JP:  Like, outside of London.

TA: Yeah, yeah. Because we were put in this camp thing for like three days. Then I also remember, All Tomorrow’s Parties, we went to LA to play too.

JP: Oh, you did? Okay, yeah, that Sonic Youth one. Wow, I don’t think I was with you guys for that one.

TA: No, but I remember that we were doing this in London. That was kind of interesting,

JP: Yeah, I was really learning a lot. I mean, Chicago, it’s such a culture of just improvising, you know. There’s no place that’s like that. I mean, like, not in New York, not like…maybe in some different cultures, you know, Asian cultures, African, where musicians just get together and play. But like at that time in Chicago, it was just like, you would just get a gig, assemble musicians, and we just show up and play. Like, wouldn’t play tunes. You just played completely improvised, you know, sometimes swinging, sometimes, you know, like open. It is a very, really valuable time for me, because I kind of just got comfortable in that space of just kind of creating stuff from nothing with very little structure. Or no structure, and just based off of, you know, listening to other musicians and trusting other musicians. I mean, I remember Fred, you know, I hadn’t really done that much improvising like that. And I remember we were playing at the Velvet once, and Fred could kind of hear me thinking and kind of like second guessing myself, and then he just totally goes- He was like: “man, Jeff,” he said, he said, “you just gotta trust your instincts.” Man, yeah, you got really, he said, “You got really, really good instincts.” And I was like, Okay, I mean, after he told me that, it kind of took some pressure off of me, you know, and I felt like I could just like, relax and just play, you know. Yeah, you guys were all such, like, mentors to me, you know,

TA: I don’t know. I mean, we were, we were influenced by you a lot, too. I mean, because I think, like Jeff said, I think there’s no place like this. And one of the really interesting things that I did before I got to Fred Anderson’s arena with Jeff and everybody else, Hamid and everybody, I did extensive sessions in the blues clubs before I came, you know, with the blues band. So that’s how I met, like, George Freeman and, you know, Von Freeman in many…because I met Von and played with Von before I met Fred, and George and I had a lot of shows together. And one of the things that I always thought was, like the improviser, they all kind of have, like this blues, like, foundation when you were in Chicago. Like Fred’s horn has this really, distinctive, bluesy thing happening. And you also did too, yeah. So I think that was very interesting to me too, because at that time, I think, you know, like we always talk about this, this South Side improvisation and the North Side improvisation was very different, right? And that we were a lot more bluesier and grounded into that, than the north side?

JP: Sure, yeah, yeah. I remember the first time I met Fred. I used to play a lot with Chris Foreman and Greg Rockingham, yes. And you remember Billy Perry? Like, he used to put together this, like, small Jazz Festival at this church, in Evanston, and he assembled a group, and the group was me, Chris foreman, Greg Rockingham, Harrison Bankhead, Billy Perry, Billy Brimfield, Fred Anderson and Arthur Taylor on Alto. And that was the first time I met Fred, and I remember Fred talking to me about that gig afterward. And he did – he said what you said, man, he said, “I immediately remembered your playing because you were playing like the blues right? It was weird.” I remember him saying that. “It was weird.”

TA: No, Fred did talk to me about you that way too, yeah. And he did talk to me about Chad in the same way, you know, they can swing in blues. Yeah, right. Then I was introduced by Afifi to Fred initially, and you know, Fifi said, “well, this kid plays bass like a drum, right?”

JP: Yeah, you were the only person I remember you’d play with a can, Coke can.

TA: Oh, yeah. Yeah, beer bottles and stuff, right.

JP: Yeah, really cool, yeah.

TA: But I think, yeah. I think, to me, coming from another city, initially, this improvising, and it’s very, very rooted into like, the blues music, is distinctively a Chicago thing.

JP: Yeah, yeah.

TA: And I think at one time of the creative music history, it wasn’t cool. It wasn’t cool if you had R&B and blues licks into your improvisation. People was like, “no, that’s not really creative improvised music.” you know?

JP: Yeah, yeah. I know, yeah. I remember Hamid…I remember Hamid talking about that. You know, he’d play with some musicians from other communities. And he would, when he would go into, like, playing a groove, guys would, like, give him funny looks and stuff. He came to Chicago, he would really…he could do that for sure. We would. People wanted it.

TA: So there’s, I think there’s outtakes from Fred Anderson quartet with JP: and Hamid in your archival tape. Because we probably didn’t use all that thing.

JP: Okay, are all the tapes from when Clarence used to record?

TA: So whatever Clarence had in his house has been shared with us, with me, But unfortunately, he left all the other tapes at the Velvet Lounge, and his son may have took all this stuff and got rid of it. So, yeah, so we don’t know, we don’t know what it is. I think some of these interesting tapes are lost, but whatever Clarence brought back to his house, he also made the copy and gave it to us, so we have them as an archive. So there are a lot of gigs that I think you were in.

JP: Yeah, I know Avreeyal used to record at the Velvet a lot, too.

TA: Yeah, yeah, yes. So he may have the video tape on that, or recording of that. Because I know for a fact that I do have some tape with you and Avreeyal and me and Fred. So I think ESS is archiving all this stuff so that’s good, because it would sit in the boxes forever if we just keep them in there.

JP: Yeah, right, right, right.

TA: Well, I think, to me, it’s a very interesting memory, as well as, surprisingly, these are new too. Like some of the Quartet recordings we had with JP: and Hamid and Fred, it’s like that band sounded so good. And, you know, then we also say, like, well, there’s nothing like that anymore. Because we’re in the new era. JP: moved out of Chicago, so we don’t have Jeff here right?. Then we’re dealing with a lot of different things in our lives.

JP: Yeah, yeah. I haven’t really listened to that, any of this stuff. I should go and I should explore. I haven’t.

TA: That’s just the two mics picking up. Yeah.

JW: Probably sounds like it sounded in the room.

TA: So when you come, Jeff, to Chicago, whenever you have time, Just give me a call. We have the door of the Velvet Lounge in our studio.

JP: Oh, wow, yeah.

TA: The actual door that we went through. We kept the door and in my studio we built a special wall so that we can fit in that door.

JP: Oh, man, yeah. Where is your studio?

TA: My studio is on 4875 North Elston. So it’s like Lawrence and Elston.

JP: Okay, yeah, I’d love to see that.

TA: Come! So we have a table, one table and one chair. and the door.

JP: Oh man, yeah, that’s awesome.

TA: Yeah, I know. Really, it’s a great thing. And I did listen to our quartet album not too long ago, Jeff, it’s pretty amazing. It’s great.

JP: The one that’s on the CD that you released?

TA: And also, I think the ESS have an archival recording. Maybe you guys have a raw recording, right? Because it was two sets of that evening. And the album only contained a few songs in a double album, because remember we used to be in Velvet Lounge, 1:30am, we’ll still be playing,

JP: We’d play a long time.

TA: I remember going home like at 4am or 5am

JP: Yeah, yeah, that place would be packed too.

TA: Oh, yeah. I would love to do that. Yeah, somebody has to fund this. I definitely am interested in re-releasing that quartet with JP: and Hamid. I think that’s a pretty amazing recording.

JP: Yeah, we should.

TA: So, we will be talking about that soon.

JP: Asian Improv? Yeah,I really liked it. I remember that the cd has a very, really cool design, like, album, like, it’s really great. I probably have it here…I know I do. It might take me a minute to find it. Nothing’s been filed…

Might take me a minute. Sorry…

TA: No? Okay, I don’t know if we even have a copy of that CD itself. Yeah, yeah, because it was a short run, and it went away real quickly.

TA: Probably 1000. It was a double album, and it has a picture of the Velvet Lounge stage with the four of us.

TA: Your house is really huge Jeff

JP: My house? You know, it looks like it is. It’s not at all. Yeah, it’s pretty small.

TA: It looks really big from here.

JP: Oh wait, yeah, here it is.

TA: So this picture was taken by one of the graduate students, or somebody like that. Original picture. And the design was done by Carol Genetti, Who’s James Baker’s partner. Yeah. And also, if I’m not mistaken, liner notes was written by George Lewis.

JP: Yeah, the liner notes are written by George.

JP: There’s Clarence on the CD.

TA: That’s right, Clarence. Clarence Bright, he’s recording this stuff.

JP: 99 Yeah, it says “recorded live at Velvet Lounge, Chicago, during the 1999 season. So it’s probably not all from one day.

JP: Yeah, that’s cool.

TA: How old were we? Oh, my God, I’m like, I’m in the 30s or something, 30s or 40s.

JP: I mean, I was in the 30’s…in ‘99 I was 32

TA: Okay, so I must have been in the 40’s… No, I’m in the 30’s too.

JP: I’m 58 now

TA: 58!? Yeah, I’m 67 now.

JP: Wow, okay, yeah,

JP: That’s cool that I found this.

TA: Hamid was touring a lot during that time too. So sometimes we didn’t have Hamid.

JP: Man, I forget his name. He was a Puerto Rican kid from Humboldt Park…Vanderbilt, Franklin Vanderbilt.

TA: Oh, Frank. Remember him. No, what did he play? Baritone, Sax, no, he played drums? No, I don’t remember him.

JP: Yeah, I remember you played with us at least once, and I remember hearing him and Fred play a duet. Oh yeah, really good. I think he moved to LA and became kind of session kind of guy, right? Maybe still out here.

JP: Yeah, he’s on the Delmark one. Yeah, I’m pretty sure I have that here too. That’s the one that came out on Delmark. Okay, oh, Maurice. I think it’s Chad and Tatsu and me and Maurice.

JP: Oh, yeah. I remember Maurice.

JP: Yeah, he’s doing well, I mean, he’s like,

TA: Yeah, he’s like a jazz guy, yeah?

JP: He plays a lot with Anderson Paak.

TA: Well, you know we still see Isaiah Spencer, he was young. Yeah, he was a young guy. Maurice was young, who was Junius? Junius Paul was young guy. Who else was there? Younger ones?

JP: I mean, I just had dinner with a lot of those dudes last night. Makaya MCcraven, he was down at theVelvet. Greg Ward.

TA: Yeah, Greg Ward, yeah, we still see them. Yeah, here.

JP: Marquis Hill, yes, yeah, like you said, genius.

JP: Josh Abrams. It’s amazing just to see, however, that place really, like, nurtured a lot of talent, man, I didn’t really go to that session on Sundays. I never liked jam sessions much.

TA: I’ve actually never been to the jam session. Oh yeah, because you, I think you and, I mean…I got lucky. We were invited directly from Fred to be in his combo. So we didn’t, we didn’t really do the jam session.

JP: Oh man. Well, you know who else came up down at the Velvet was Isaiah Sharky. Yeah, he used to, I remember Fred telling me about “man, like, there’s this 12 year old kid, his parents bring him to the session.” Isaiah Sharkey, you know, now he’s really famous, you know, from playing with D’Angelo and like, and Common and like Eryka Badu and that whole scene of people. But he came up at the Velvet, you know, playing with Fred.

TA: I mean, later parts of the Velvet lounge had people like Dee Alexander coming, yeah, Nicole Mitchell coming. They’re all famous people. I think the guys who we used to play or met back then, and if the sustainability was there, and if they’re doing stuff today, I think many of them are, you know, pretty good.

JP: For sure, yeah, yeah. It was a great, great, great community that came.

TA: Well, I mean, today, it’s very different. I think, you know, the time is different.

JP:  Yep, yeah. I was gonna ask you about how the scene there feels now.

TA: Well, I think it’s a completely different set of people doing stuff, but we still have a lot of improvising sessions. I think that the major difference between where we were at the Velvet Lounge was that it’s more of the spiritual mentorship of someone, like a friend, like you said, nurturing people. So we have venues to do this stuff, and we have younger people and a new generation of people doing improvised sessions. But it is not, it’s not like the old way, where we were kind of mentored by friends, right? So, that’s that different thing, like my blues time with blues musicians, and also, you know, like George Freeman time, it was also, they were like my mentors and tried to teach me all their stuff, you know? Like, I don’t know if you know people like Jimmy Ellis, who played the Alto Sox. They’re like Fifi’s generation, right? So those people, I hang out with them, and they would actually take you into the music, and they’ll nurture you, they’ll mentor you, right? Yeah, amazing, yeah. And I think we don’t really have that structure anymore.

JP: I remember Fred, you know, at the end of the night, he closed the bar, and we’d just hang out and play, listen to Charlie Parker records, you know, and even play interviews and stuff with Bird. Yeah, it was a lot of great, great times.

TA: Fred used to practice during the day, and he was playing like a Charlie Parker stuff, right? But he’s never done that on the stage.

JP: Yeah, no, he wouldn’t.

TA: So the only time I heard him play something straight ahead publicly was when we went to Osaka, Japan with Hamid and me and Fred. We had to do this workshop at the school, Elementary School, and Chicago jazz guys come in. So Willie Pickens was there, Hamid and me and Fred and all these other blues guys were there, and Fred Anderson played Billy’s bounce.

JP: Oh, wow.

TA: We were like, Oh, wow, yep, wow.